Kazakhstan: The surprising wilderness adventure hotspot

Welcome back to Destination Unlocked with me, Daniel Edward.

Well, it's great to have you here for this episode of Destination Unlocked, the

conversational travel podcast, where the world is introduced to us by locals and

expert travellers, and today we're going to Central Asia with a guy that I met at

an event in London, which was sponsored by Almaty, which is in Kazakhstan.

I met Shiv and we were chatting and turns out that he runs a company called Iron

Curtain Sports, which runs adventure trips to Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan and

Mongolia, and his company's called Iron Curtain Sports, which already highlighted

something of central Asia's history, which is of course it was part of the USSR.

Iron Curtain Sports covers, boxing boot camps, and also other adventure trips,

including a football themed tour, which takes you all around Kazakhstan, visiting

all of the stadiums of the Kazakh Premier League, which is a new and different

way of seeing the country, for sure.

We cover all sorts in this conversation, from an overview of the countries, if

you've never been before, and like me, have very little awareness of their

culture and their history right down into some of the nitty gritty about how to

get around and some of the funny stories that you might collect along the way.

Enjoy.

So Shiv, where are you unlocking for us today?

Today I'll be unlocking, uh, both Kazakhstan

and Kyrgyzstan in Central Asia.

I think this is a part of the world which is gonna see

such a surge over the next few years.

And you know, the, the big flow of people tend to follow a year or so later as the

intrepid travelers check it out first and then pass back their good feedback.

is it about the Stans, that we're gonna be talking about

today that really appeals to you?

They're like second homes to me.

I have business there.

I used to live in Eastern Ukraine, right next to the Russian border.

I used to obviously spend some time in Russia as well and Belarus.

So when the war happened, I use my Russian language skills and my contacts

in Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan to shift operations and, from a personal point of

view, it's a beautiful part of the world.

Not well traveled.

It's not like a Machu Picchu in Peru or Vietnam, Thailand and places like that.

And what sort of tourist or traveler would you recommend it to?

Who would really love going to Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan?

Normally when I'm on a plane, on Air Astana, to Almatyty in Kazakhstan.

I notice that it's normally retired, married couples and younger people

by themselves, maybe they might be on a gap year or maybe just having

a break from work or something.

I don't really see families unless they are a mixed couple, so it might be a

Kazak woman that married a British man and maybe they're going to see their

grandparents or something like that.

But I don't think the countries have the infrastructure for young families.

But as a young adult, it's a great place.

It's a land of discovery basically.

It is people who've got a bit of the spark of adventure in them.

Yes.

Almaty and Astana.

Astana's the capital.

Almaty is the old capital, and Almaty is still the bigger city,

in terms of population, it's probably double the size of Astana.

Astana, 1 million Almaty, 2 million.

If you go outside of the cities, yes, it's definitely intrepid travel.

Dark tourism, you know, various other tags you can associate to it.

The two main cities, it's like being in a European city, like they have

all the amenities, infrastructure.

So, it really depends what you want to do.

Me personally, I base myself in the cities, but then I do

go out into the wilderness.

And that's beautiful.

That is truly, truly beautiful.

Yeah.

I wanna talk a bit about the wilderness side of it shortly, but

let's cover the two main cities first.

Why don't we go in chronological order and start with Almaty, which was previously

the capital city, what is there to see in Almaty, what are the top highlights?

the middle of the city, you can go on a cable car

and you can go up to Kok-Tobe Hill.

It's almost like going to Chesington zoo in a sense, you've got amusement

rides and various other things.

But the main place where people go a little bit out of town is

called the Shymbulak Mountains.

For skiing, and there's a, a place near it where people have concerts and then

the other famous one is Charyn Canyon; a little bit further out of town,

and that's a really good nature spot.

Back within the city, near Mildom Hotel, it's got all the sort of bars and

places like that and it's a really nice place in the summer for evening walks.

'cause in the summer it gets it's really, really hot.

And in the evenings there's that light, cool breeze coming through.

There's lots to do.

And you know, every time I go back, I learn more things.

Architecturally, can you see the different eras of

Al as you walk around the city?

Yes, it's quite an old city.

It is a traditional Soviet capital, so there's a lot of

Soviet architecture there.

But economy wise, it's probably the most, you know, prosperous place in Kazakhstan,

so there are new builds being put in.

It's a nice blend.

It's not too modern.

It's not too old.

It's somewhere in the middle.

And then Astana was sort of thrown at the

Kazakh people, as a new capital.

And so it's sort of futuristic in that sense.

Yeah.

Astana is architecturally completely different.

There is old and new town, but the new town dominates; it's way bigger

than the old town because it, it was like a little village before.

If you want to save a bit of money on the hotels, find a hotel just across

the bridge into Old Town, it'll be a lot cheaper and within a 10 or 15

minute walk you can be in New Town.

That's what I normally do, the hotels in the new town are extremely expensive.

It's like Milton Keynes, you know, it's got a grid pattern and there is

a tremendous amount of construction going on there than there is in Almaty.

If you're a first time visitor, is there one that you would

recommend going to over the other?

I've got friends in both cities and there is,

there is a bit of a rivalry.

I think the rivalry is gonna get into football pretty soon 'cause

they're now the top two clubs.

I'd say Almaty, for a few reasons.

Number one, if you are getting a direct flight from the UK, London, Heathrow,

you're gonna go to Almaty first.

But more than that there is definitely more to do in Almaty;

there is more cultural stuff.

It's surrounded by mountains.

But Astana, a lot of people deride it saying, oh, it's not, it's

not what Almaty is, it hasn't got the same culture and all that.

But, I've got a soft spot for Astana, I think there are

things you can do there as well.

It's quite fun to see a place which is being purposefully

built, rather than, something which sort of organically grew up over centuries.

Astana just seems like it's a work in progress at the moment.

Weather-wise, Astana doesn't get as hot, but summers are decent they're

like, you know, mid twenties, possibly late twenties, whereas

Almaty gets into the thirties.

So if you don't like the heat too much, Astana could be better in the summer.

In the winters, however, Astana becomes brutally cold.

There is like this really cold, brutal wind.

Almaty is also cold, but not on the level of Astana.

And I would class winter as November to March and I would class summer

May to September and April and October being interchangeable months.

When you say brutally cold, what do you mean?

I've been there one winter when it got to minus 48.

Wow.

Celsius.

Yeah, it, it, it was brutally cold.

However, what I will say is that their heating systems in the buildings are

really top notch, I guess they have to be.

And the taxis, were all really well heated up and everything.

And I didn't stay there that long because, I just didn't want to be in that cold.

So I went from minus 48 back down to Almaty, which was a nice warm minus 20.

So,

Balmy.

Yeah, a balmy minus 20.

How easy is it to get currency before you go?

Or is this something that when you get there, you sort

everything out of the airport?

You can't get the currency from the UK.

So what I do is take money outta the ATM for the cash.

It's a very technologically advanced nation in terms of, you

can use your cards everywhere, so you don't need cash as much.

The taxi service is called Yandex Go, and the issue with that is if

you put in a foreign number, it's becomes really difficult, I have

to call a taxi each time, and I need cash, essentially for that.

But if they fix that issue with the Yandex Go where you can put in

a foreign number and use it almost like an Uber, I don't even really see

the point where you will need cash.

Even going to the mountains, there's people with card readers and this is

only gonna get more pronounced with time.

But if you do need cash, I would recommend getting a debit card with no fees or

very low fees and just taking money out ATMs in that part of the world.

You mentioned taxis, is that the way to get around or are

there other ways to get around within the cities and between the places?

You can rent cars and you've got the car rentals at the airports.

Personally, I don't want to find parking and this and that, and I'm in a foreign

country, driving in the city with their different rules and regulations, I

don't want to get involved with that.

Within the city, I don't want to drive.

And the other thing is taxis are so reasonable.

Sometimes they even cost less than a day pass in the London Underground et cetera.

If you are going to rent a car, please be vigilant because cops can stop you

and say, oh, there's a slight issue with your car, or you are going one mile above

the speeding limit and you're gonna have to pay him a little, you know, bribe.

And in the beginning I was a little bit angered by that, but then sometimes when

you look at it philosophically, you also have the same system in the UK it's just

you're not giving the money to the police directly, but two weeks later you're

getting a letter through the post box.

So, I guess in some ways it's better like that in Kazakhstan where you

can even haggle with the police.

So if they say 500 tenge, you can haggle it down to 200, for example.

And at least you can not worry about, am I gonna get something through the post?

Yeah, that's That's true.

If you're just staying in the city though, on the metro with so much

being card related, do you just tap in and tap out with your bank card?

With the metros, different cities have different things.

Almaty has a metro.

I'm trying to think, did Astana have a metro?

Some of these cities are built on fault lines, so they can't have metros.

I've rarely traveled on the metros.

The taxis are so cheap that it's pointless.

But I think they have introduced in Almaty that you can tap in, tap out with cards.

However, I know that there is still the cash option as well.

We've spoken quite a bit about Kazakhstan,

but what about Kyrgyzstan?

Kyrgyzstan, I would say is the little brother of Kazakhstan.

It's almost like Kazakhstan is England and Kyrgyzstan is Wales.

Kazakhs and Kyrgyz are quite similar.

They are two most closely aligned countries.

It's, I would say like 10 or 15 years behind Kazakhstan

in terms of its technology.

It's obviously a smaller country, a third of the size population.

And, you Bishkek is, again, it's, it's almost like a modern European city but the

countryside areas of Kyrgyzstan there's a lot less infrastructure, especially when

you go past the Issyk-Kul region into Naryn, which is like complete wilderness.

But Naryn is a definite hidden gem.

I've never been to Osh and Jalalabad, the two main places of Southern Kyrgyzstan.

The northern part I can highly recommend of Kyrgyzstan.

And, if you do the border crossing by land, that is an experience in itself.

I highly, highly recommend people to do it.

A lot of people nowadays are just jumping on flights.

But if you can cross the border by getting a taxi to the border crossing

and then walking by foot across it is, uh, little excursion, so to say.

Yeah.

Why is this?

I can see a laugh.

The border crossing is called Korday, and my taxi driver dropped me

from Almaty, so I was on the Kazakhstan side and it just seemed like a sort of

marquee stroke shed kind of building.

And I went in and people had goats on leashes, and they were taking big bags

of watermelons and different things.

It was like being in a kind of village, but it was an official place.

It was just a surreal kind of experience.

The guy in front of me had a goat on a leash and, I was like,

does the goat need a passport?

That's exactly what I was wondering.

The other funny thing is, they obviously all

had Kazak or Kyrgyz passports.

And I came with a British one and the guy was kind of thrown back,

like, what are you doing here?

Kind of thing.

But nothing.

I faced worse things at airports.

It was fine.

It was a good experience.

And when you are inside there's, it's like a tunnel.

Especially in the summer, it's like a being in a sauna.

you're dragging your suitcase and you're just trying to get out of

that tunnel experience, out that sauna and get onto the other side.

And The reason I do the border crossing by land is the flights from

Almaty to Bishkek are extortionate.

Flights were costing like 500 pounds return.

They're almost as expensive as London to Almaty.

And in the end, by the time you get to the airports and waiting times,

it's almost the same kind of time.

The other thing is the beautiful journey from Almaty to Korday.

You see, the mountains, the landscapes.

It's truly, truly something to behold.

What would you be eating here?

A, a typical meal in, in Almaty, Astana, Bichkek.

Is it the same?

Is it different?

must we try?

The cuisine on the two countries is more or less similar.

They have their signature dishes, that might be a bit different, but

the common theme is horse meat.

Horse meat is the main poster boy or poster food in both countries.

And everything to do with horses.

I mean, horses are revered.

They're killed for their meat.

And also the horse milk, which I believe it's called Kumis.

I might have butchered the pronunciation.

So there's a lot of horse milk products as well...

Fermented milk and cheeses.

and Horse meat is definitely the thing to try out there.

I've tried it.

I wouldn't say it's like the most amazing meat out there, but there

are worse things to eat than that.

If you are a vegetarian or, or vegan, even though it's meat heavy kind of cuisine,

there are also vegetarian vegan options.

Actually a horse, surprisingly, or maybe not surprisingly,

takes us straight from food into sports.

Let's enter sports through the traditional side of things.

Maybe you could explain kokpar.

They have these traditional sports that have been

happening there for many centuries.

I believe it was a region that was invaded by the Mongols.

So there's a lot of ancient Mongolian traditions.

So these sports might have originated from Mongolia but they, they've

definitely been embraced in Central Asia.

So you have kokpar, which is two groups of men on horses, and there's a goat carcass

and they're both trying to grab it from each other to take it to a certain zone.

Asian version of the Olympics.

and That was in Astana, and that was a really, really great event.

I went to the arena to watch kokpar being played.

But there was also some other ones where there's two men on horses and

they were wrestling each other, trying to get the other one off the horse.

And there was a lot of tug of war in the indoor stadium.

If you are a sports fan like I am, it's a really great experience

to go and to watch these sports.

I just got so enthralled by watching it.

Oh, yeah.

And I'm, I'm, I'm forgetting one of the main ones: they do a lot of

bird flying and things like that.

So those are traditional sports as well.

It feels to me like a huge part of their culture...

sporting, societal... all of that connects in with nature and animals.

They have a real reverence for the natural world.

Yeah, especially when you go outside of the main cities.

You know, traditional nomad villages, yurts, lots of wilderness.

I mean, Kazakhstan is a massive, massive country and it's got

a relatively small population.

I believe it's around 21 million though it is growing.

But you know, for a country that is in the top 10 countries in terms of land

area 21 million is extremely small.

It's only slightly more than Romania, for example.

You literally could drive maybe an hour outside of the city and you'll be in

complete wilderness, in all three cities mentioned: Astana, Almaty, and Bishkek.

So yeah, if you want to get away from people, these are

great countries to visit.

I wanna ask you about your company Iron Curtain Sports because it's

such an amazing way to see this region.

We've already sort of covered some of their traditional sports heritage.

You know, physical activity is clearly something which is so deeply

ingrained in who they are and, and how they live life in the area.

And you are bringing people out there to sort of engage in this,

not necessarily in the traditional sports, but in a different way.

I started the company while I was in Ukraine

and we had a boxing bootcamp in Kharkiv, where I lived in Ukraine.

However, once the war started, we had to move operations.

So I set about going into both Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan.

I went into the Issyk-Kul region of Kyrgyzstan and it's such an

idyllic place, it has mountains and it has this massive lake or Lake

Issyk-Kul, right in the center of it.

I believe it may be the biggest landlocked lake in the world,

but certainly one of the biggest.

It's almost like a sea.

It's such an idyllic place.

Within half an hour, you'll be on top of the mountain or

on the flatland on the lake.

And I was noticing that a lot of people were coming there who were from Central

Asia, so there was a lot of Kazakhs, and Tajiks and Uzbek . And a lot of

people from around Central Asia come to Issyk-Kul for their summer holidays.

So I thought if people are coming from all around to Issyk-Kul, there must

be something great about this place.

And, apart from the place, they had a world champion called Dmitry Bivol,

who was born on the borderland of Chuy, which is the region where the

capital Bishkek is and of Issyk-Kul, ' they're two neighboring regions.

He's, you know, world champion and all that.

And, he trains there before he does his main camp.

He does his pre-camp in, is Issyk-Kul, running in the mountains and all that.

And then I saw the infrastructure, like the boxing gyms Bril.

so I was like.

This is the ideal location.

I've got a poster boy, Dmitr well known around the world.

So let's set up operations here.

We do a boxing bootcamp in Kyrgyzstan.

And, whether you are a novice or whether you want to become a professional boxer,

it's a great place to come over and train.

What does a day look like on a bootcamp?

If you're doing it as a, trip as well, how much of the place do you see, or how much

of the locals do you interact with and how much of it is pure sports training?

The camp is mainly in Cholpon-Ata.

So you'll be going around mountains and the journey is epic and when you get

into Issyk-Kul it's like wilderness, you know, open land, it's old school.

It's like transporting, backing time.

So we want you to go to a place where you can fully concentrate on your training.

We could have located in Bishkek, but the problem is if you locate in a

city, which is almost like a European city or Western city, there's all the

temptations to make you fall off the wagon, nightclubs or bakeries with

rich food or, you know, various things.

We wanted to really take you into the wilderness where in the nighttime, you

can look into the skies and see the stars so clearly and things like that,

you know, and fresh food and we also offer the option of you can stay in

a yurt as opposed to the guest house.

For your listeners who might not know what that is, it's a

tent, but it's a fairly big tent.

It's native of Central Asia.

So a lot of people used to live in yurts, in Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Mongolia,

and other surrounding countries as well.

There is no bathroom facilities within the yurt, so you have to go

out and the, the wifi is patchy, compared to the guest house.

So it depends how old school you want to take it.

I wouldn't really recommend it in the wintertime 'cause it will be,

uh, it'll be quite cold, but in the summertime it's quite a good option.

I love that these bootcamps aren't just a physical training, it's

sort of a mental release as well, and you're in the right place for that.

The ability to disconnect from the world that, you know, we are both in London,

that is very difficult to escape from in London and suddenly you are back in time

and back in a space where you can actually connect with your own human needs.

That's Iron Curtain Boxing.

That's the purely the Boxing Bootcamp.

We also have Iron Curtain Adventures.

We offer a range of adventures, and our signature one is the Recluse Retreat.

So what we can do is we can put you in a yurt either in Kazakhstan,

Kyrgyzstan, or Mongolia, which is our other specialist country.

And it depends how far you want to take it.

So there are yurts, which are a few hundred meters from the main town, or

you can go to, into a yurt, which is a few miles away from the main town.

We can take your smartphone off you and give you one of those

old school non-smart phones.

For emergency.

So, And you can take a camera, just a camera, so you can completely disconnect.

What we do is that we offer food delivery three times a day so, you know, your

food is covered, but you are also living in wilderness away from people.

We take away the technology, there's no internet connection.

I believe that this is something which Western society needs because we are

constantly on the phones, constantly on social media, constantly around people.

And I think that sometimes maybe the best medicine might be just to get

away for a week, maybe a month or however long, you know, you might need.

And these countries outside of the main cities are built for that.

That is a life changing trip.

You know, people use that in brochures and whatnot all the

time, but it's very rarely true.

This is real, authentic camping, getting away from people.

There's no infrastructure.

There's not like you can just walk into, a convenience store down

the road or anything like that.

Humanity needs it.

And I see the potential for this being something really big in the

years to come, especially as AI and various other technology takes over.

Humans will need to feel human in the future.

It'll become an important element of being human.

Because right now we are almost feeling like machines, in

certain aspects of our lives.

I really hope that countries such as Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan and Mongolia

and others, don't basically spill concrete all over their countries.

'cause we need real locations in this world, you know, real

authentic locations to feel human.

There's one other of your tours that I specifically want to

ask about, and this one is in the built up areas, but people may or may not

know that Kazakhstan has got a pretty decent premier league for football.

Oh yeah.

So I developed with my partners there, a football tour, going to each of the

14 Premier League clubs in Kazakhstan.

The clubs are all spread out across the country.

So you get to see the country, east, north, south and west.

A little bit in the center as well.

And you get to go to each of the clubs and go into the stadiums and purchase their

shirts and maybe even catch a game if the schedule works out at the right time.

It's a great way of seeing the country.

If you're a football lover and you want to get to see the whole of Kazakhstan,

it's our Iron Curtain Football Tour

I think that one sounds fantastic.

If people do want to find out more, how can they find you?

I'm on Instagram, Iron Curtain Boxing, Iron Curtain

Adventures, and Iron Curtain Football.

Also the websites, ironcurtainboxing.com.

ironcurtainadventures.com,

and ironcurtainfootball.com.

Mainly on Insta and Facebook.

And what we do is we get to learn about our clients first, and then we

kind of tailor the experience to them.

So don't be afraid to reach out and let us know what you want, because

if you are one of those people that just wants a relaxing time, we're not

gonna put you in the boxing bootcamp.

We'd say, you know go on our football tour, for example.

'cause it will just be a chilled out time.

Sounds so cool.

You mentioned that you speak Russian and that's been your key into the country.

If you are heading there, you don't speak Russian and you don't

speak Kazak, are you gonna be okay?

Within the city centers, yeah, you'll be fine.

The younger generation are learning English, Western music is what

they listen to a lot so that, so a lot of people do speak English.

In terms of Russian or Kazakh, I would always recommend Russian simply because

in the cities, Russian is more widely spoken than Kazakh or Kyrgyz in Bishkek.

I highly recommend that you get to know a few phrases of Russian.

Don't worry if you're not a fluent speaker, you'll still

get by, you'll still be fine.

if you wanna say, how are you say kak dila.

Please is pa-ZHAI-uh-stuh and thank you is spa-SEE-buh

And are they widely used?

Is that considered good etiquette there?

No, they don't have the same, you don't need to do all that out there.

I'll give you a funny anecdote.

I was on a local flight between Astana and Almaty and I was sitting next

to a babushka, which is like, their version of it means grandma basically.

And we're sitting on the flight and we land and I'm sitting on the aisle

seat, she's in the middle and there's another babushka on the window seat.

So she literally elbows me, on my arm, and I looked around in a bit of shock,

like, someone's elbowing me like that, and then she's pointing up like, get

my bag, from the overhead locker.

And, so I get her bag and there's no thank you or please afterwards.

It's If it was done in the uk, it's def there's something wrong,

but, it is just the way it is.

It's not done out of malice, they just don't have that thing

to their culture like we do.

But I always do say, 'cause I, obviously I'm born in Britain, so

please and thank yous are used here.

So I'm, I'm always pa-ZAO-uh-stah or sba-SI-bah, to people.

And, and people are fine with that.

Well, yeah.

Even if you are in a different country, you can't separate yourself from yourself.

So if that's your custom, then you do bring a bit of that with you,

Yeah, exactly.

What about tipping?

Is this a thing that people are expecting?

No, tipping's not a thing out there.

However, sometimes when you're in a taxi and they've asked for like 45, tenge,

you give 50 and you're just like, keep, and they get really like, happy about it.

They're like, wow, you're like, you really don't want the change.

I'm like, no.

But they almost like insist on giving the change back.

Yeah, tipping isn't a thing out there.

Nothing compared to what it is like in America, for example.

If you wanted a really authentic locals day, you

don't wanna feel too touristy.

What would you say is a locals insider thing?

A lot of people go to the markets out there.

The name escapes me for the Almaty and Astana Markets, but the one

in Bishkek is called Osh Bazaar.

It's a massive place and it's just, you get everything from like clothes

to different fruits and delicacies and loads of different things.

So if you are into your shopping or you want to purchase something

that's unique or try a unique kind of food, definitely go to the markets.

In terms of other things for locals, a throwback from the Soviet area,

there's the ballet and circuses.

There is a dedicated building in all three cities to a circus.

Um, if you are against animal cruelty, maybe don't head to the circus 'cause

they still bring animals in, into them, but they like the, they're

throwbacks to the old Soviet kind of times in terms of the circuses.

And the ballet is another big thing out there.

The ballet and the theater.

So yeah, those are where a lot of locals head to,

what would you say is your top thing to see or do?

In Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan, my top thing is definitely

to head into the wilderness.

I,

What's your tourist trap to avoid?

, Shiv Singh: Tourist trap to avoid is maybe driving your own car.

Yeah.

What would you say is your favorite time of year to visit?

I'm a guy that likes hot weather, so, my favorite time is July

and August, however, if you like your cold weather, November to March is,

uh,

minus 40.

yeah, yeah.

If you, if you like your hot weather, definitely.

Uh, oh yeah.

The, the other thing, um, July and August, I, I just wanna quickly say is, july and

August is very expensive, when you go to traditional places because, you know it's

the school holidays and things like that.

But when you go into Central Asia, former Soviet places, it's

actually reasonably cheaper.

I dunno why, but I think that a lot of people from there head over to

Turkey or Egypt or places like that.

So as people head out for their summer, it becomes cheaper.

So if you want to go in July and August and not spend the big bucks, then head

over to Central Asia in those two months.

That's a really good tip.

Thank you.

How about top food or drink to try while you're out there?

The obvious one is horse meat, or the horse milk related products.

If you're a meat eater, you've definitely gotta try the horse meat.

The food is so delicious out there.

I can't, I can't tell you.

Obviously avoid on the side streets, some of these street vendors, the

food, the hygiene might not be there, but 90% of the places are fine.

The other thing is try the arbuz, which is Russian for watermelon.

I mean, it is on another level out there.

It's like sugar water.

And when you come back here to the UK, you'll never want

to eat watermelon from here.

Because the quality of the watermelon out there is on another level.

So definitely horse meat and horse milk related products and the fruits.

Final question.

If I'm looking for a really good authentic souvenir, not a fridge

magnet, not a mass produced t-shirt, something real, what should I look for?

I would go for the Kazakh warrior hats that they have out there.

The name escapes me of what they're called, but, you'll see them because when

you go into the city center, there are people selling them and things like that.

Whether it's Almaty or Astana or Bishkek.

Definitely get those hats.

They're quite big as well.

And they're from the old school warrior time centuries ago.

So yeah, I would definitely recommend the hat and maybe even the robe

as well that accompanies the hat.

And, if you don't want to buy them because you know, you maybe your luggage allowance

isn't gonna allow you to bring them back,

there are places where you can go in the city center where you can put on the robe,

put on the hat and they'll take a picture.

There's obviously a small cost involved, but you can have the picture of

you in traditional or central Asian warrior clothes and it's a picture

you can have for life basically.

That's so cool.

Shiv from Iron Curtain Sports.

Thank you so much for unlocking Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan for us today.

You are welcome Daniel.

Thank you.

Well, once again, thank you so much to Shiv Singh from Iron

Curtain Sports, for unlocking Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan and all of those

adventures that you can enjoy out there.

If you wanna find out more about Shiv, even get in touch with him, I've put all

of his contact details on his profile page on the Destination Unlocked website.

That's destinationunlocked.com.

Go to our guests directory and you'll be able to find everything you

need to be in touch with him there.

Well before you do head off today, please make sure that you are

following the podcast wherever you're currently listening.

It makes a big difference to us and it also means that the next time you want

to go armchair travelling somewhere lovely, you'll find us very easily.

I'll see you then.

Bye-bye.