Maremma: a wild side of Tuscany

Welcome back to Destination Unlocked with me, Daniel Edward, just now ready to depart.

Please make sure your seat belt is.

My fast and do make yourself comfortable.

Well, welcome back to this episode of Destination Unlocked where we're going to my favourite country on earth.

I love it, it's Italy.

But today we're going somewhere that I've noticed been.

I've been to Tuscany, but really, as with so many visitors to Italy, my experience of Tuscany is going to Florence and Pisa.

Well, there's so much more to it than that.

And today we're joined by a true local.

Sarah Matilda Madonna is going to take us somewhere that.

Well, you've probably not been either.

We're going to Maremma in the same south of Tuscany, fairly close to the Lazio border.

And I reckon by the end of this conversation, you'll have booked your ticket too.

Enjoy.

So, Sarah, where are you unlocking for us today?

Hi, I am in an area of Tuscany which is called Maremma, which is a very wild and unknown area.

Yes, it's an area I have not heard of and I love Tuscany, so I think this is going to be a great conversation.

We're going to unpack some of the lesser known parts of Tuscany, the Tuscany that people should visit but don't automatically think to.

Let's start by situating where Maremma is.

Maremma is the south of Tuscany on the coast.

We are very close to Lazio, which is the region of Rome.

We are about one hour and a half, two hours from Rome and.

And it is one of the less populated areas in Italy.

It's really wild.

We have a lot of countryside, forests, and it is not usually where people go.

When you think about Tuscany, you think about Florence, Siena, Pisa, all the cities and the Chianti, which is very famous all over the world.

But not many people knows about Marimma.

It's gorgeous.

I've just looked up pictures.

You're right on the coast, which is amazing.

But then you've got green mountainous hills, which Tuscany is so famous for.

Straight out of the sea.

Exactly.

It's really beautiful.

And you grew up here?

Yes, this is where I was born and I grew up.

I traveled a lot and I lived in many places and I lived in cities.

I lived in London for a while, but.

But at the end I needed to go back, I needed my route and the countryside, the connection with nature, which here is really strong.

If somebody wants to see this less discovered side of Tuscany, is Maremma the place to go or would they go to Grossetto?

Would they go somewhere else?

How Would they even fly in?

The best way to fly is because Pisa.

And there is a train connecting to the main places.

You can go to Grosseto, you can go to Fonica, but this is not particularly well connected.

Buses are not really effective.

Let's say the best way is to have a car and you can rent a car when you arrive to Pisa.

It's quite easy to rent a car.

You say it's easy to rent a car.

I believe that part.

But is it easy to drive?

Yeah, I think so.

I'm really used to that.

And I lived in India for many years and I used to drive in India, so it's easy for me to think about driving in Tuscany.

But here the roads are small, but there are not many people.

Don't hit a wild board or a fox.

You can drive.

You can drive here.

Okay.

So the most dangerous road users are actually the animals and not the Italian drivers.

Okay.

That's what we have to be careful of when we drive in the night, especially.

And wild boars.

That's one of the most popular dishes, isn't it?

In this area is very popular stew made with wild board, or pappardelle, which is a type of pasta with a ragu made with wild board.

And you've got a special cheese as well.

We have pecorino cheese, which is very famous in Tuscany, which is made with sheep milk.

It's not cow milk, and it's stronger and usually it's better for digestion.

People with lactose intolerance can usually eat pecorino cheese.

And it's tasty.

And it is tasty.

To be honest, I think all of your food is tasty.

Let's do some landmarks.

If somebody is going to come to visit the countryside of Tuscany, what are they looking at?

Is it going to be historic buildings and towers, or is it going to be something more natural?

We have lots of small medieval towns on the hills, so you can combine nature with culture and explore the little towns.

Usually they all have typical small restaurants, so you can have a food experience as well.

It's not only about nature.

And then if you like bicycles or hiking, we have a lot of trails for bicycles.

And we have quite a lot of tourism that is interested in sports.

So most of the people who are finding Maremma at the moment are active, out cycling, hiking.

I suppose if you're going to be in the countryside, you've got to be a bit fit, haven't you?

Yes.

But you can also do the experience of the culture.

So maybe you like to go in Museums or just see historical palaces.

And we have a lot of that.

On that side of things.

Obviously everybody thinks Tuscany, Florence and then they sort of stop there.

If they don't stop at Florence, maybe they'll go to Pisa.

But these are just two places in quite a sizable area.

So where would you say if somebody wants to see historic palace but they don't feel like going to the Medici Gallery in Florence, where should they look out for?

We don't have such a big town like Florence or Pisa.

Grossetto is not as beautiful as Florence for sure.

There are very few places in the world as beautiful as Florence.

Florence is stunning and unique.

And I would always say to people, go to Florence as well, because that kind of experience, you find it only in Florence.

You can go to Siena, which is stunning as well, and Pisa for the tower and the center of Pisa.

But Maremma is more about small places, villages.

But we have, for example, Massamaritima, which is my actual hometown, I was born there, which is a small village, but it was really important in the medieval time.

And the main square of Massamarettima has a dome which is considered one of the most beautiful in Italy.

It's not the same experience as Florence, but it's an experience.

And when you're going out of the main tourist areas, how easy is it to visit these places?

Is it well set up for tourism still?

Yes, it is.

I have to say, not so many people speak English.

It's part of the beauty of the area.

We are a little bit disconnected from the world here.

So it is not a place for tourists that look for fancy places or full comforts.

We have a very few five star hotels in the area.

It's mostly about agriturismo, bed and breakfast and experiences that, that are more connected to real life here.

This is what I love so much about Italy in general.

But the countryside of Italy stands out for this even more.

It's a country which has so much, so much history, so much art, so much high culture, and yet it's a country that is so humble and I think that's the nicest part of Italy.

It's real, it's every day and stuff, which if you found it outside of Italy, you would be making such a song and dance about it.

You'd be going, this is the most incredible thing.

Sometimes I think Italians don't realize how blessed they are because you've got too much of it.

I agree with you.

I totally agree with you.

We often don't understand the richness of our country and this is an issue in Italy because there are so many places that should be preserved in a better way, but they're not.

Because we are so used to have them, we don't consider the importance they have.

For example, we have so much archaeological items on the ground that still in Rome, they need to stop the building of another tube station and line, because all the time they find things underground.

This is all Italy, so we give it for granted.

Sometimes I feel like Tuscany's heyday, its biggest moment was the medieval times.

Rome had its Roman times, Tuscany had the medieval period.

There was so much money just in this one area, wasn't there?

The medieval time and the Renaissance time with the Medici.

I think Florence was extremely important all over Europe.

And we joke as people from here, that we still have that mentality of being royalty and very popular and very rich, but we're not anymore like that.

But in that time, we built the most beautiful palaces and cathedrals.

And at that time, Italy didn't really exist.

It wasn't a country called Italy.

And so there were these little kingdoms.

Did the money that was centered in Florence stretch out to other parts of Tuscany?

Yeah, it was after the medieval time, we were a kingdom.

It was all Tuscany, considered like a.

Country and a rich country and a very influential one.

Because even if you look at the Italian language today, it's essentially Florentine.

Yes, it is from Dante, the Divine Comedy.

That's Italian.

That's what we consider Italian, because Italy was never a country until 150 years ago.

Each part of it had their own language.

And what we consider Italian today is Florentine.

It's coming from Tuscany.

There's this huge cultural hub and I think that's what people instantly connect Tuscany with.

But then the other side that people dream about when they're picturing Tuscany is the green hills and the blue skies.

The warmth of the landscapes, in terms of the colours, is amazing.

One of the things that I would love to go to, and I haven't been yet, there are some geothermal pools.

Yes, I was thinking about it now.

The most famous one we have is Saturnia, which became really popular because of Instagram and influencers, which is annoying for us because it's overcrowded now.

But we have many other small hot springs that are less known.

And actually locals, they try to keep themselves secrets because of what happened to Saturnia.

But, yes, this land is rich of hot springs, hot water coming from the ground, sulfurious and healing because it's very healthy.

Why don't we talk about the Healing side, because, as you said, you spent a fair amount of time away.

You were born here, but then you were in London for a bit, which isn't necessarily the world's most healing destination, but it's certainly exciting.

Then you were in India, where a lot of people do go for that holistic healing.

But equally, Indian cities are far from healing.

They are very stressful, too.

But then you returned to the Tuscany countryside and you've made this a big part of your life and in fact, what you do for work as well.

While traveling, I was looking for experiences and not thinking too much about the health of the food I was eating or air I was breathing.

India is a magical place and has a lot of spirituality and healing, but it's extremely polluted, not only in the big cities.

In fact, the quality of food is not good.

And generally I was feeling my body was affected by the lifestyle I had there.

And same thing in London, which is not as polluted as Delhi, for example, but still, it's not the kind of life I wanted to do.

Here we have that.

This is all we have, actually.

A natural way of living, connected to the land and with good products.

Maybe we don't have the offer of London in terms of food and experiences, but what we have is genuine and made with love.

So I reconnected with my land and I came back here, and it was the best decision for me for sure.

And so was it time in India that got you more conscious of the holistic side of healing, or it was something that you were already connected with and that was why you started traveling?

No, it was in India for sure.

But I started to think a few years ago already I wanted to come back here to live in Tuscany, but life was bringing me away.

I was like, oh, but in my land, they're not ready for getting on the holistic experience.

And then I could see the change coming here as well.

Especially after the pandemic, people got more on the spiritual side and they already had the nature to connect.

They started to open more about holistic practices.

And now I think is going to be also for us here in Maremma, a good way to bring tourism.

So what sort of holistic practices do you gravitate towards?

I organize events based on sounds and movement, and I do something that is called systemic constellations, which is an alternative complementary therapy.

And I like to do it in nature as much as possible.

I also work with tarots, healing tarots.

I don't consider myself to predict the future or something like that.

You've got the most amazing location for that sort of healing practices.

Because just being out in nature before you even start on actually proactively doing something the nature's already giving.

Absolutely.

That's why I think at one point I wanted to come back here.

I mean, even in UK there is some stunning places, but for me, I am Italian, so the weather was very harsh.

I cannot enjoy when it's raining constantly.

Maybe because I'm used to better weather.

I don't know.

You've come up to one of my favorite fun facts because nobody believes this, but statistically there are more rainy days in Rome than in London.

Are you sure about that?

That's what I. I'm convinced.

Hang on, let me, let me now check.

Are there more rainy days?

I've told so many people this, I hope it's right, is in Rome than London.

Here we go.

Yes, yes, yes.

Rome gets more total annual rainfall than London.

Rome has 800 to 880 millimeters annually.

London has 580 to 690 millimeters annually.

However, in London it's.

Yeah, okay, fair enough.

London has more rainy days, but it rains less on those days.

Yes, that's for sure.

It's more rainy days and particularly in Maremma.

The Gulf of Follonica is one of the less rainy places in Italy.

Follonica itself, it's one of the sunniest places.

I don't know why.

It's maybe because of the wind or something.

We have Elba island in front.

Something happened that made it a best place to be in the sun.

Geography is your friend.

Absolutely.

So what would be your ideal weekend in Maremma?

Depends on the season.

Because if it's good season, you can go to the beach.

You can actually go to the beach even in the winter time.

Of course, it's a different experience, but you can look for cultural events.

We have a lot of live music, usually small events, maybe some restaurants or bar.

Making an evening with some local artists.

I have to say, this land is rich in music and arts, but you need to search for that.

Nothing is mainstream here.

Nothing is too much.

This is an issue, but as well is protecting us.

It turns it into a bit of a treasure hunt.

But do you have any tips for how somebody might be able to find out what's going on?

Are there secret places like the public library where things get advertised?

Or do you have to go and talk to the owner of an Esteria?

You need to speak Italian as well.

Or if you're listening to this podcast, you can contact me and I will help you.

I'm really happy to help you, but it can be difficult if you don't speak the language.

But I have also to say that local people, they might look a little bit close, but once you get to know them, you go in the bar, have a glass of wine and just say, I don't know the place, maybe someone will help you.

You have to get with the people.

In southern Italy, it's a lot easier even without the language.

We are in the center, so we are in between.

It's not north style, which is more close.

It's not like south, where people just bring you home and feed you.

It's something in between and depends on the area.

Also depends on which time of the year, because I have to say July and August, it just too much.

We have a lot of tourism, especially Italian tourists, and then people are not really friendly, I have to say.

But if you come off season, it's the most beautiful place and people can be really helpful.

If you're the sort of person who really loves live music in the square or food festivals.

Is there a place within Marema that's better that you should think, okay, this is the place to stay?

Because there's just more likely stuff going to be going on.

Well, there are many small villages and little towns where you can stay, and they all have their own food festivals or experiences.

Recently I've been going a lot to a town that is called Suvereto, which is so beautiful and they have a lot going on there.

Food festivals, music festivals and even off season.

And I would say that's a place I would consider to stay if I was not local.

And again, you'd fly to Pisa, pick up your own car there.

What if you can't drive?

Is it just those unreliable buses and.

Trains, but not so many.

I have to say this is not an area that is easy for who doesn't have a car or a bicycle.

It's a long bike ride.

Yes, it is.

But there are people that do that.

You can go on horse.

Yes, there are people that do that.

Going on horse.

Sounds fun.

Don't know if it's as fun for the horse, but what an amazing place, because then you're going a much slower, gentler pace.

You get to look around you and see how gorgeous it is.

Oh, that would be really nice.

I wonder if you can do horse rental from Pisa airport.

No, you cannot.

That's not possible.

Avis need to look at that.

It's an experience you can have, but not from the airport.

No one of the things that you can do in the bigger cities, I wonder if this is also something in the smaller towns.

There are some really great food experiences where you can learn to cook local dishes.

Do you know of anywhere where you can do that?

I was speaking about it with a friend from Florence that always come here for holidays and she was telling me, oh, it's such a shame that here in Maremma is not so many experiences like in Florence.

In Florence is overwhelming.

The amount of cooking classes you can take and different experiences.

We don't have as much of that here, but I see this changing in the past few years.

So more and more people are offering experiences about food or we have a lot of olive oil and wine in this area.

So wine tasting, olive oil tasting and cooking experiences is coming up.

And you said earlier about agrotourism, where are people staying for that?

What sort of projects are they getting involved in?

The Agriturismo is actually a place you stay in.

Usually it's an old restored countryside house where they give you breakfast, where you can have food experience.

Sometimes they do cooking classes or they teach you how to pick your own vegetables, or they bring you in the countryside and they show you how to do things.

And you can find plenty of that.

Just online booking dot com.

Yes.

If you go and write Agriturismo, you can find many.

Are there volunteering projects as well that people can do out in the countryside?

Yes.

I have few friends that are having woofers or work away projects and you can go there and learn from them.

I wish I could find the website again.

I found this before the pandemic, so it was years ago and I was sure I bookmarked it, but I cannot find it again.

It was this amazing farmhouse somewhere in Tuscany, but out of a city.

It was in the middle of nowhere.

It was gorgeous.

And you could stay there for, I think, up to two months and just help on the farm.

I thought, oh my gosh.

I was sure I saved it for a time where I had two months available and I can't find it.

You should look on workaway because there are many similar farmhouses that offer this.

You can go there and stay a couple of months, volunteer and have a slow living.

And that I think is the biggest attraction.

You're out in nature, you're probably doing a bit of physical exercise because you're helping out and that's really good for you.

And then you're close enough to go on a drive out to see an historic town or a village, spend some time out by a Real seaside, not a touristy seaside that's been totally overwhelmed by commercialism.

The seasides in Maremo, are they, as in other parts of Italy, chargeable?

Do you have to pay to go on the beach?

There are some places that they charge, and you can rent the umbrella and sunbeds, but we still have quite a lot of free public beach.

So you can go there with your.

Own umbrella and just go for a swim?

Yes.

And nobody can deny you access.

Like, you can pass through a private one, you can walk through that.

Let's do a little bit of Italian language, because if we're going to go off the beaten path, if we're going to go out of Florence, going to go out of Pisa, and people aren't going to be able to speak English.

So well, maybe it's useful that we have a few phrases in Italian to at least look friendly.

So how would you say hello to somebody?

How would you greet someone?

Well, we say ciao, but usually in the morning, if you enter a place like a coffee shop, we say, buongiorno, good morning.

How would you say please, per favore and thank you?

Grazie.

And do people use please and thank you?

Is that common?

Yes, we are quite polite in the language, but we don't expect foreigners or tourists to do it.

But it's always nice to.

How about goodbye?

Well, depends.

If it's informal, we say ciao, otherwise.

But this is something we use with people we don't know, or they are elder.

It's more formal.

Yes, it's more formal.

Are there any Tuscan phrases that you're going to hear locally but you're not going to hear in other parts of Italy?

Actually, there is something.

People swear a lot in this area, which is not nice, and we say something that is not really super polite, but it's very common here is really maremmayala, which is meaning maremma is the female of the pig.

And it's an expression that is really used here just to say whatever happened is like, oh, maremma mayala.

This.

Oh, maremma mayala.

That's so interesting.

So is it a little bit like in English using bitch as a female dog?

Yeah, a little bit.

But you've gone for female pig.

Yes.

And it's about the land.

We are complaining about the land.

We are calling it names.

It just shows how connected everything is to the land.

Even when things go wrong, you blame the land itself.

Yes, exactly.

Okay, so mouths in the gutter is what we're learning.

That's your slang.

Okay, we'll stick to the nice, polite, friendly Italian.

Yes, better.

Another thing that people don't know what to do when they go to other countries is tipping.

They might be used to tipping quite a lot, especially if they're from the States, for example, and other countries, they don't tip at all.

Where does Italy fall within that?

And in particular when you're outside of the main cities in the Tuscan countryside, are people expecting you to tip for things?

No, they are not expecting it.

We are not really doing it here.

But however, it would be really nice if you do it because salaries are really low comparing to the expenses that we have.

So it's nice because usually people that they work in public places or any way with tourists, they don't earn so much.

So what would you say is a good tip to be thinking about in a restaurant?

Let's say your meal has come to €30.

That would be a couple of people.

Yeah, I think maybe if it's €30, you leave 2, €3.

So about 10%.

And this is something that I think surprises people.

It's quite affordable.

If you're visiting as a tourist, you can get some of the most fabulous meals at really reasonable prices.

These are prices that if you wanted to eat that meal at that price in London, you'd have to go back 15 years.

Absolutely, yeah.

We also have some places that do like all you can eat menu but with typical food.

So you can have as much pasta you want and then the meat and then the antipasti before wine and coffee is all included.

And it can be around €30 35 for a full meal with a lot, a lot of food and wine.

There is a real custom around food in Italy and I think, you know, people know Italian food because it's all around the world.

One of Italy's best exports is food, but there's a tradition and a custom around the meal itself.

I think when people look at a menu in an Italian restaurant in Italy, they can sometimes be a little bit confused as to what they're supposed to order when explain how a meal works.

Well, we eat together because it's a very important part of the culture.

We don't go out because of the food, we go out together because of the experience.

It's so important.

Even the way we drink, for example.

Wine is always connected with food.

Usually we need time, a meal has to be long.

So we start with the starters, dentipasti, and then we drink some wine and we chat and.

And maybe we share the starters and then we have the main dish.

And typically, you do antipasti and main dish or a second dish and that's it.

We don't really have three course meals so often, but if we can prolong the time we are at the table together.

Yes, why not bring me more food?

That's the way.

And a lot of times in restaurants, bread will be brought to the table automatically as well.

Yes, it's part of the cuperto.

The charge that you get usually is like €2 or €3 and it's including the bread.

I think a lot of people internationally get a little bit confused by the coperto.

They think it's the service charge.

It is not.

It is the use of cutleries.

It's the washing up bread, olive oil, the Washington.

You get charged for everything one way or another.

Let's talk about day trips.

If you wanted to take a day trip from the south of Tuscany, where would you recommend would be a good couple of day trip options?

Well, from south of Tuscany you can easily get to Pisa, Siena or Florence if you want to visit them.

And in Lazio there is super beautiful area that is called Tusha, which is really close to Tuscany, where it's Viterbo area.

And also there you can find similar experiences to south of Tuscany, but they have some lakes like Borsena Lake, which is a little bit different than the coast.

Experience the beach.

Alrighty.

And if people want to contact you, they're interested in coming to the area and maybe they want to connect with you about some holistic healing events whilst they're there.

How can they reach you?

Instagram is the best way at the moment.

Saramatmad, which is my name, the beginning of my second name and my surname.

S A R A H M A T M A D. Saramatmad.

The Wrap Up Roundup Quickfire Finish is now ready for boarding.

What would you say is your top thing to see or do in Marema?

The beach for sure for me is the experience of being close to the sea and possibly go with a boat to have a day trip, which is another thing that I like to do a lot here.

Oh, day tripping on the boat, Just staying out on the water.

Yes.

Having lunch there and maybe coming back.

Yeah.

What would you say is a tourist trap to avoid?

Well, don't go to eat in the restaurants which are in the main squares of any place you go.

Try to avoid.

Usually there are tourist traps.

And don't go to eat in restaurants that they serve pizza for lunch because we don't do that.

So that's a tourist place, huh?

No pizza Italians have so many rules about when you're allowed no cappuccino after lunch, no pizza for lunch.

But if you want a real pizzeria, it's only the evening time open.

Well, that is well worth knowing.

What is your favorite time of year to visit Maremma?

Personally, it is September, October or May.

June is very good time.

What would you suggest as a book or a film that's connected with the area?

Well, I was thinking about books and films, and the only thing coming to my mind now, it's a local author that you can find in English as well, because it's been translated in English.

He became very popular.

His name is Sasha Naspini, and he wrote quite a few books about the area.

They're a little bit bitter.

And his way of writing is really beautiful, but not the happy ending story you can expect.

But there is one book, it's called Le Casa del Malcontento.

I have no idea in English how it has been called.

The House of the Discontented.

Yes, that's it.

And it's a beautiful book.

Oh, A psychological thriller.

Oh.

Set in a ghost town.

Oh, yes, you've tempted me on that one.

Thank you.

What would you say is the top food or drink to try in Marema?

Well, drink wine.

And not only red wine, because we have some great white wine on the coast to pair with fish.

And if you're not really into meat, which is the main thing in Tuscany, is like Fiorentina steak and wild bo.

But maybe you're not so much into that.

We have few great fish dishes, or even vegetarian, which has not been exactly the typical Tuscany meal.

Vegetarian, but starting to be more and more popular.

And I love the olive oil here.

We have some great olive oil that we produce.

Final question for you.

If somebody's heading to Maremma, wants to take home an authentic souvenir, they don't want a T shirt or a cap or something that was probably made in China.

They're looking for something real that's connected to the place.

What would you recommend they look for?

Look for the real artisan shops, which we still have in few of the towns, and look for people that they really work wood or leather.

We have few.

Mostly they are gone.

I have to say, when I was a child, I remember so many small shops with people doing things, and now it's much, much less, but we still have few of them.

Leather goods, wood, ceramic.

We have a tradition of that.

Sarah, Mathilde Maggiona, thank you so much for unlocking Maremma for us.

The hidden and unknown side of Tuscany.

Thank you.

Thank you for having me today.

Well, thank you once again to Sarah Matilda Madiona for introducing us to a much lesser known part of Tuscany, Maremma, in the south of the region.

I hope you enjoyed the conversation and I hope you're subscribed as well.

Well, wherever you're listening, double check that you're following the podcast so that you can easily find us the next time you want to go traveling somewhere.

Lovely.

I'll see you then.

Bye.

Bye.